I recently beat Chained Echoes after spending over fifty hours playing the game. Chained Echoes is the best independent old school JRPG-style video game that I know about, and I thought it could be interesting to compare Lady of the Lake to Chained Echoes. I have a unique perspective as someone else who spent a lot of time making a game with a lot of similar inspiration. I made Lady of the Lake full time for around one year by using a ton of resources and RPG Maker MV.

Combat

Unique Twist

Chained Echoes has three main unique twists for the old school turn based battle system:

One, it uses an overdrive gauge for all the allies. It starts in yellow (to the left), and getting into the green “overdrive” reduces skill costs and damage dealt to allies. If you get into the red “overheat,” you take more damage and skills cost more. Most actions move the gauge a little to the right, and a certain type of action will move it to the left. The overdrive gauge is a great idea, and it was well implemented. My one small critique is that I think a regular attack or defending should always bring you closer to the green (overdrive) direction. Defending does often help bring you back closer to overdrive, but not always.

Two, it has an Ultra Move meter. Once it is filled, any ally can use their unique super move. This meter also stays filled, so you can save it for boss battles and other very difficult battles. This is similar to Pep Powers found in Dragon Quest 11 (that also resembles going Super Saiyan from Dragon Ball).

Three, there are mech battles  (in “sky armor”)  – you can pilot giant robots that are giant flying vehicles. This changes how combat functions a lot. It does not technically use the overdrive gauge, but it uses a similar gauge that can overheat.

Lady of the Lake’s main twist is the BP system, originally introduced in Bravely Default. BP is a universal resource that can be used to improve attacks and other skills. Lady of the Lake's BP system rewards you with +1 BP every time you defend, and with +1 BP every time you don't use any BP. (Defending gives you +2 total.) Bravely Default requires you to defend to get a BP, and Octopath Traveler only gives you a BP when you didn't use it last turn. The BP system rewards defending and planning a strategy that can pinnacle with extremely powerful abilities. Some skills or spells require that you use the maximum (3) BP, so these actions also resemble pep powers.

Trash Mobs

Trash mobs are non-boss monsters. Trash mobs in Chained Echoes can be challenging, which is appreciated. However, there are small nit picks about the trash mobs in Chained Echoes: The enemy AI does not seem great. They can also get overly similar, repetitive, impossible to avoid, and take too long.

Trash mobs in Lady of the Lake tend not to be as challenging, but they tend to be quick and easier to avoid. The AI used for spell casting enemies are somewhat advanced. For example, enemies will not usually cast sleep on an ally who is already asleep.

The trash mobs in Lady of the Lake also involve more noticeable variety, such as significantly different healers, spell casters, or massive enemies.

Bosses

The bosses in Chained Echoes are a lot more fun, as usual. They do have some interesting variety of combat actions that can add for some interesting situations. Some of the bosses also have multiple stages, which can add to the excitement.

Many of the bosses in Lady of the Lake have advanced AI, especially when they are spell casters. I think this can make boss battles a lot more interesting.

Positioning or Guardians

RPGs have often lacked ways to protect low HP allies, such as wizards. One part of the solution is to have tanks – allies that are heavily armored and can help protect their allies. This was a huge concern in Dungeons and Dragons, and grid-based tactical battles is one way it has traditionally been done. Dragon Quest made party order determine who is attacked the most, which was a great and intuitive solution. A lot of the Final Fantasy games have rows – a front and back row that also helps a lot.

Bravely Default uses equipment to help determine who is attacked – high defence armor increases the chance of being attacked. I don’t think Octopath Traveller has any solution to this issue at all.

Chained Echoes has a hate system. An ally that uses certain abilities or attacks an enemy makes the enemy more likely to attack that particular ally. This is mostly very subtle, and the wizard wasn’t protected enough for late game battles.

Some tank allies also learn to protect allies by “taking a bullet” for them, but that rarely happened when I played the game, and it requires you to pay close attention to know when it happens.

Lady of the Lake has rows. The front row is more likely to be attacked than the back row. The front row is also a more effective place to use close combat, and the back row is a more effective place to use bows.

Some tank (guardian) allies also protect allies by “taking a bullet” for them, this can be a very significant part of the combat system, and some enemies are also able to have this function. This is also visually shown when it happens.

Regular attacks

You have a lot of TP (basically MP) in Chained Echoes, and using a regular attack is rarely used. It can be slightly less bad for the gauge, but not enough to really make it worth it.

Regular attacks are often useful in Legend of Vivian Lady of the Lake. Fighters can learn to increase their regular attack count, and duel wielding can also make it more effective. Some late game bosses might be too strong to bother with regular attacks, though.

Shields & Parries

Chained Echoes does not use shields or parries.

Lady of the Lake has a powerful shield and parry system. Shields can block attacks and completely protect the person using it, which is shown visually. It is also possible for some characters to learn to dual wield weapons, which gives them more attacks when using two weapons rather than a shield.

Status Effects

Status effects are a huge part of combat in Chained Echoes, and I appreciate how well they work on bosses, which is better than usual. Even so, I have a few nit picks about how Chained Echoes uses status effects:

1. Status effects are not explained well, and it takes time to learn how they function.
2. Status effects do not display prominently in Chained Echoes and it can be easy to forget or not notice when a character has a status effect (until it's too late, such as with staggering). There are no special effects used for status effects, and sleeping characters don’t even look different.
3. Chained Echoes does not use the typical interaction of status effects that we might exact. For example, ghosts and skeletons can be put to sleep or be poisoned.

Status effects are not as large a part of how combat functions in Lady of the Lake, but they can still be significant. Lady of the Lake also has a Help option that explains status effects in details.

Status effects are visually displayed more prominently for Lady of the Lake, and they often use unique animations or special effects. For example, sleeping characters look like they are asleep.

Wizards

Wizards are notoriously underpowered in JRPGS. How do these two JRPG-inspired games handle them?

The spell casters in Chained Echoes can be interesting with all the status effects and healing abilities, but attack magic tends to be too similar to physical attacks. The main wizard in Chained Echoes is also too frail and underpowered.

The spell casters in Lady of the Lake tend to be very powerful. Status effects are important against a lot of the powerful trash mobs in particular, such as putting trolls to sleep. Attack magic can be incredibly strong—usually a lot better than other attack options, so wizards are the glass cannons that many of us hope them to be.

Artifacts

The weapon and armor upgrades in Chained Echoes tend to give small incremental bonuses that are hard to notice. Gems can be added to them to give characters various types of buffs, but they do not add new action options during combat. Weapon and armor upgrades also tend to be inexpensive.

The weapon and armor upgrades in Lady of the Lake tend to give significant bonuses that are easy to notice, and some of the staffs have very interesting abilities, such as casting a healing spell. Many of the upgrades can be expensive.

The weapons in Lady of the Lake also use an intricate system, where each type of weapon is more or less effective against certain enemies. For example, spears are not effective against skeletons, and maces are.

Replayability

Branching narrative

Chained Echoes does not seem to have any significant choices that impact the story.

Lady of the Lake has around five main story events that can happen based on your actions, such as the choice to fight or not fight certain bosses. For example, if you don’t fight an optional boss, another NPC hero might do it for you. Also, if you recruited that hero, then the boss might later attack Camelot with an army. This is subtle in some ways, so it will likely not be noticed unless you play the game multiple times.

Customization

Both Chained Echoes and Lady of the Lake have skill points, and you can buy new abilities with them. This can offer a somewhat different experience on different play throughs.

Both games also have various secret characters that can be added to your team. I think this is a bigger issue in Lady of the Lake because there are multiple different groups of monsters you can recruit.

New Game Plus

As far as I can tell, there's no New Game Plus yet for Chained Echoes, but it is being worked on.

Lady of the Lake has always had a New Game Plus option that can significantly change what the game is like.

Exploration

Both Chained Echoes and Lady of the Lake lack typical overworld map exploration, and they both treat travel the same way they treat dungeon exploration.

Chained Echoes is a massive game with multiple optional dungeons, and exploration is a huge part of the game.

Lady of the Lake is a much smaller game, there are multiple optional dungeons, but they tend to be very short.

Game Length

Chained Echoes is a massive game that took years to make. It takes around fifty hours to beat the game.

Lady of the Lake is a somewhat short game. It takes around six to twelve hours to beat it.

Special Effects

Chained Echoes uses eight directional movement, which I can't do with RPG Maker MV.

Chained Echoes uses multiple layers for surfaces, such as the ability to walk under or over the same bridge. That is not something I can do with RPG Maker MV.

Chained Echoes seamlessly transitions to combat in the same place you are exploring, which is not something I can do with RPG Maker MV.

Edit (1-31-2023): These limitations with RPG Maker MV can likely be overcome with the right plugins and resources. Roderick Kelly pointed out that he is able to get eight direction movement to animate properly.